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> Introducing PS 2012 ECU reflash upgrade, Older stage 2 and stage 3 now discontinued
yayou
post Aug 4 2012, 10:18 PM
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Hi all,

I am pleased to announce the availability of a new and final 2012 reflash version for all Polaris 2006-2012 FST and turbo sled. This flash is the best ever made by Precision Sports over the last 4 years and has been extensively tested during the 2011 season.

The 2012 reflash will replace older stage 2 and stage 3 flashes that have been on the market since 2008. In fact, the 2012 reflash version is so good it will be the only one offered by Precision Sports going forward. Older stage 2 and stage 3 flashes have already been discontinued.

The main benefit of the 2012 reflash version is the fact engines operate much like when methanol injection is installed, meaning there is barely any power derating at high boost in normal operating conditions. This has been made possible by further refining ignition and fuel maps.

The 2012 flash version offers slightly more boost than the older stage 3 flash and features the same reliability as the widely used stage 2 flash version. It requires the use of premium pump gas at all times for best performance and incorporates all security and safety features originally programmed by Polaris.

A special upgrade program for people already using stage 2 and stage 3 flashes will be introduced and presented on the website of Precision Sports by August 10th 2012. For all customers not running an older stage 2 or stage 3 flash, this 2012 flash will be the only one offered by Precision Sports going forward. I am very pleased with the performance of this 2012 flash and feel it's simply the best in terms of reliability, stability and power output without methanol injection.

Do not hesitate to e-mail Precision Sports if you have questions or if you require more information about the new 2012 reflash program.

Contact us

This post has been edited by ExcursionPSD: Nov 22 2012, 01:43 AM


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RSRACIN05
post Aug 5 2012, 07:37 AM
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Good news. You will be getting mine soon!!


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Jonesie
post Aug 5 2012, 01:32 PM
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What is the expected hp numbers? The website say that meth injection will not make the sled more powerful would meth injection still not lower iat and stave off derating? I was going to pop for both meth and a reflash but if i can save then im all for it.

CHEERS

This post has been edited by Jonesie: Aug 5 2012, 01:36 PM


--------------------
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Snobeeler
post Aug 5 2012, 02:38 PM
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QUOTE(Jonesie @ Aug 5 2012, 03:32 PM) *
What is the expected hp numbers? The website say that meth injection will not make the sled more powerful would meth injection still not lower iat and stave off derating? I was going to pop for both meth and a reflash but if i can save then im all for it.

CHEERS

In laymans terms, Martin has found a combination that keeps the ECU "Happy" which lowers the possibility of derating dramatically. Meth would only help when IAT temps are very high like when riding in 50 deg temps. The great part about the flash is you are still protected by the knock sensor. Just get the reflash. Martin can comment on HP numbers but dont hold your breath. blink.gif blink.gif

This post has been edited by Snobeeler: Aug 5 2012, 02:42 PM


--------------------
06 FST Classic............. 8,700 miles, All Updates and Team Tips Completed, Yayou's 2012 ECU Upgrade, Reinforced Boost Box, PS Advanced Rider Adjustable Boost Pressure Controller, Innovative Motorsports Data Logger, Stewert Warner Boost Gauge, 08 Spindles, SLP slt Ski's with Dual Runners, Revalved M-10 shocks, Reinforced Front A-Arm, Rebalanced Drive Clutch, SLP Heat Vents, Gearcase Alignment Done, Violet Wire Fix, Rerouted Cyclone Seperator Vent to Muffler, Jackshaft Notch, 12 Volt D-C Outlet, Gas Tank Float Level Modification, RC7PYCBX Spark Plugs.

2014 800 Switchback Pro R Adventure..........1650 Miles, Rerouted VES Solenoid Outlet (sound familiar), StudBoy Duece Runners, Heavy Rear Track Spring.
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Jonesie
post Aug 5 2012, 05:37 PM
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Well from my understanding is that more boost = more iat which means less efficient power compared to lower iat. As we know cooler air makes more power. So my reasioning it that meth would still help with that and provide a more efficient way to help make power. The hp#s are what they are aside from doing a bigger turbo this flash is about as easy a way to make power as possible. I just remember that he had tested previous flashes and muffler/intercooler combos and made over 175hp.

I HAVE no doubts that Martin can and does work magic on the fst, hence no matter what he will be getting my cash. May be i will have to do some comparison runs with meth and with out on logworks and post some data. Would be intresting to see logs to compare. I just know the benifits of methonal injections on turbos and never heard of a set up actually being better with out it or where is made no difference.

Cheers


--------------------
09 iq turbo dragon. Glowshift boost gauge, 2012 flash, reinforced boost box, 5000k 55 watt hi/low hids, polaris projector beam, 11" windshield, garmin gps, tunnel bag, 6" carbides, skinz muffler, shock tower vents, lower side panel vents stock 25/44 gearing, 1.25 ripsaw track, walker evans shocks with remote reseviours.
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westernstar00
post Aug 5 2012, 05:51 PM
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QUOTE(Jonesie @ Aug 5 2012, 07:37 PM) *
Well from my understanding is that more boost = more iat which means less efficient power compared to lower iat. As we know cooler air makes more power. So my reasioning it that meth would still help with that and provide a more efficient way to help make power. The hp#s are what they are aside from doing a bigger turbo this flash is about as easy a way to make power as possible. I just remember that he had tested previous flashes and muffler/intercooler combos and made over 175hp.

I HAVE no doubts that Martin can and does work magic on the fst, hence no matter what he will be getting my cash. May be i will have to do some comparison runs with meth and with out on logworks and post some data. Would be intresting to see logs to compare. I just know the benifits of methonal injections on turbos and never heard of a set up actually being better with out it or where is made no difference.

Cheers

looking back through the archives looks like 191 hp with stage 3 reflash intercooler and muffler , was hoping this new reflash would put it up to the 200hp mark, nice even number, just perfect for a trail sled , lol


--------------------
2010 turbo dragon, 1.25 track with 192 14.25 megabites , p.s. 2012 flash , racecraft intercooler , skinz muffler , slp venting , stiched boost box , updated boost ref. lines with updated clamps , 24-44 gearing, boost gage, ross's alt. pulley and deflector , slp skis , 160 t-stat, ngk iridium bkr8eix plugs ,shorai lightweight battery, pollished tunnel and a few things this ole guy forgot,
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Jonesie
post Aug 5 2012, 06:06 PM
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Wouldnt that be nice. I ride with sleds in my group that start at abour 190- 225hp and that are the old school muscle sleds(xcr800, thunder cats.) While i would love to beat them in 2000' i settle for 200hp and passing gas stations while they need to fill up.


--------------------
09 iq turbo dragon. Glowshift boost gauge, 2012 flash, reinforced boost box, 5000k 55 watt hi/low hids, polaris projector beam, 11" windshield, garmin gps, tunnel bag, 6" carbides, skinz muffler, shock tower vents, lower side panel vents stock 25/44 gearing, 1.25 ripsaw track, walker evans shocks with remote reseviours.
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westernstar00
post Aug 5 2012, 06:28 PM
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QUOTE(Jonesie @ Aug 5 2012, 08:06 PM) *
Wouldnt that be nice. I ride with sleds in my group that start at abour 190- 225hp and that are the old school muscle sleds(xcr800, thunder cats.) While i would love to beat them in 2000' i settle for 200hp and passing gas stations while they need to fill up.

i rode the xcr8s, owned one of every year they made, ported, piped, and even made one into a htg 1100 with lots of help from doug flannery,, ya they are tuff to beat in the tripple diget zone, but you would have to have a very good running xcr8 to outrun my fst to 0- 100......... now the 1100, thats a differant game, its all about picking your race.


--------------------
2010 turbo dragon, 1.25 track with 192 14.25 megabites , p.s. 2012 flash , racecraft intercooler , skinz muffler , slp venting , stiched boost box , updated boost ref. lines with updated clamps , 24-44 gearing, boost gage, ross's alt. pulley and deflector , slp skis , 160 t-stat, ngk iridium bkr8eix plugs ,shorai lightweight battery, pollished tunnel and a few things this ole guy forgot,
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Snobeeler
post Aug 6 2012, 07:07 AM
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QUOTE(Jonesie @ Aug 5 2012, 07:37 PM) *
Well from my understanding is that more boost = more iat which means less efficient power compared to lower iat. As we know cooler air makes more power. So my reasioning it that meth would still help with that and provide a more efficient way to help make power. The hp#s are what they are aside from doing a bigger turbo this flash is about as easy a way to make power as possible. I just remember that he had tested previous flashes and muffler/intercooler combos and made over 175hp.

I HAVE no doubts that Martin can and does work magic on the fst, hence no matter what he will be getting my cash. May be i will have to do some comparison runs with meth and with out on logworks and post some data. Would be intresting to see logs to compare. I just know the benifits of methonal injections on turbos and never heard of a set up actually being better with out it or where is made no difference.

Cheers

Meth on vs. Meth off on a 20f day is worth about 5f. So if IAT is lowered from 75f to 70f there is very little if any gain. The 2012 flash has been tested extensively and there are no gains seen with meth. I have seen some logs that show this. I am not trying to discourage you from testing as I know how much fun it can be. Basically the ECU has been holding back max power to prevent Deto from starting. Martin has found it was overdoing its part and the 2012 flash allows the engine to run closer to its max performance without getting Deto. Best part is if on a very rare occasion Deto would occure the safety measures are still there to prevent damage.


--------------------
06 FST Classic............. 8,700 miles, All Updates and Team Tips Completed, Yayou's 2012 ECU Upgrade, Reinforced Boost Box, PS Advanced Rider Adjustable Boost Pressure Controller, Innovative Motorsports Data Logger, Stewert Warner Boost Gauge, 08 Spindles, SLP slt Ski's with Dual Runners, Revalved M-10 shocks, Reinforced Front A-Arm, Rebalanced Drive Clutch, SLP Heat Vents, Gearcase Alignment Done, Violet Wire Fix, Rerouted Cyclone Seperator Vent to Muffler, Jackshaft Notch, 12 Volt D-C Outlet, Gas Tank Float Level Modification, RC7PYCBX Spark Plugs.

2014 800 Switchback Pro R Adventure..........1650 Miles, Rerouted VES Solenoid Outlet (sound familiar), StudBoy Duece Runners, Heavy Rear Track Spring.
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yayou
post Aug 6 2012, 08:35 AM
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The original Polaris calibration features an aggressive ignition retard map that uses air charge temperature as a trigger to retard timing. Anytime air charge temperature goes up, timing advance is reduced and consequently net power output is reduced. Polaris, for obvious reasons, calibrated on the conservative side and this is totally understandable.

There are 2 ways to deal with the above when looking for better performance: 1-) reduce overall air charge temperature by improving intercooler efficiency and/or adding methanol injection, or 2-) reduce the amount of timing retard at various air charge temperature levels by changing the ECU calibration.

The 2012 reflash version deals with method #2 above. This means the ECU is calibrated to maintain optimal, yet safe, ignition timing at higher air charge temperature preventing power derating. If maintaining optimal ignition timing can be achieved using a method that prevents harmful knock and detonation events, then this is just as effective as methanol injection. The amount of ignition retard that was taken out to avoid power derating on increasing air charge temperature is what was tested last year. The goal was to get the best compromize between engine safety and overall performance.

Methanol injection is not a power adder, it is just an effective method used to maintain optimal ignition timing during high boost operation. Where methanol injection would have an edge over the above method is if boost levels were to be higher than 25psi. This is not the case here and does not apply.

Finally, about engine power output improvement over the previous stage 3 calibration. I would like to warn everyone the gains will be marginal at initial WOT.... around 5hp is my guess. The big difference is after around 1000ft WOT, the older stage 3 normally derates power and the 2012 flash version holds power and the difference between the 2 flashes can easily be anywhere between 10-15hp.

Hope this helps clarify the concept behind the newly released 2012 flash version.

This post has been edited by ExcursionPSD: Jan 10 2013, 06:47 PM


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Fst-switchback
post Aug 6 2012, 09:25 AM
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So a completly stock sled would wind up with how many horse?
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Juiced
post Aug 6 2012, 05:35 PM
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QUOTE(yayou @ Aug 5 2012, 12:18 AM) *
Hi all,

I am pleased to announce the availability of a new and final 2012 reflash version for all Polaris 2006-2012 FST and turbo sled. This flash is the best ever made by Precision Sports over the last 4 years and has been extensively tested during the 2011 season.

The 2012 reflash will replace older stage 2 and stage 3 flashes that have been on the market since 2008. In fact, the 2012 reflash version is so good it will be the only one offered by Precision Sports going forward. Older stage 2 and stage 3 flashes have already been discontinued.

The main benefit of the 2012 reflash version is the fact engines operate much like when methanol injection is installed, meaning there is barely any power derating at high boost in normal operating conditions. This has been made possible by further refining ignition and fuel maps.

The 2012 flash version offers slightly more boost than the older stage 3 flash and features the same reliability as the widely used stage 2 flash version. It requires the use of premium pump gas at all times for best performance and incorporates all security and safety features originally programmed by Polaris.

A special upgrade program for people already using stage 2 and stage 3 flashes will be introduced and presented on the website of Precision Sports by August 10th 2012. For all customers not running an older stage 2 or stage 3 flash, this 2012 flash will be the only one offered by Precision Sports going forward. I am very pleased with the performance of this 2012 flash and feel it's simply the best in terms of reliability, stability and power output without methanol injection.

Do not hesitate to e-mail Precision Sports if you have questions or if you require more information about the new 2012 reflash program.

Contact us

Nice to see that you are still making strides to make these great sleds even better! Nice work!!

Did you by chance make any changes to the GT25r flash for us losers running big turbo's?

This post has been edited by Juiced: Aug 6 2012, 05:40 PM


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tyler
post Aug 6 2012, 06:09 PM
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Any chance your still running a summer discount this year? smile.gif
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Jonesie
post Aug 6 2012, 06:50 PM
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Thanks martin for clearing up how you are making the ecu work better. Do you also have a new clutch setup for this? I will be sending my ecu out to you mid sept and will want to get a clucth setup aswell.

Cheers


--------------------
09 iq turbo dragon. Glowshift boost gauge, 2012 flash, reinforced boost box, 5000k 55 watt hi/low hids, polaris projector beam, 11" windshield, garmin gps, tunnel bag, 6" carbides, skinz muffler, shock tower vents, lower side panel vents stock 25/44 gearing, 1.25 ripsaw track, walker evans shocks with remote reseviours.
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yayou
post Aug 6 2012, 09:25 PM
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QUOTE(Fst-switchback @ Aug 6 2012, 11:25 AM) *
So a completly stock sled would wind up with how many horse?


That's a tough one. I have seen highly optomistic dyno figures in the past and I have also seen conservative dyno figures. Sometimes the same flash will show 190hp+ on a particular dyno (which I don't believe to be accurate at all) and 155hp on an other dyno (which I don't believe to be accurate either). It all depends on who is operating the dyno and how the sled is setup on the dyno.

That being said, I have flashed hundreds of ECU's for customers all over North America and Europe and many of them had the opportunity to run their engines on dyno's. The overall consensus has always been that the stage 3 reflash was generating around 175hp and the stage 2 around 165hp..... give or take. So.... I am sorry if I do not quote huge numbers, but that is what I believe to be right after 5 years into this and certainly over 600 ECU's flashed during that time.

QUOTE(Juiced @ Aug 6 2012, 07:35 PM) *
Nice to see that you are still making strides to make these great sleds even better! Nice work!!

Did you by chance make any changes to the GT25r flash for us losers running big turbo's?


Answer is yes Paul. Gains are the same in terms of power stability. A good setup on a larger GT25 plateform will approach the 200hp mark at 20psi boost.


QUOTE(tyler @ Aug 6 2012, 08:09 PM) *
Any chance your still running a summer discount this year? smile.gif


Yes, there will be a 20% special on the website that will run between September 15th to October 15th. Orders outside these dates will not be granted the 20% discount, so don't ask..... :-)


QUOTE(Jonesie @ Aug 6 2012, 08:50 PM) *
Thanks martin for clearing up how you are making the ecu work better. Do you also have a new clutch setup for this? I will be sending my ecu out to you mid sept and will want to get a clucth setup aswell.

Cheers


Clutch setup does not change. Please visit the technical article section of the Precision Sports website and take a few minutes to read the article about FST clutching.



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orville-x
post Aug 6 2012, 09:28 PM
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QUOTE(yayou @ Aug 4 2012, 10:18 PM) *
Hi all,

I am pleased to announce the availability of a new and final 2012 reflash version for all Polaris 2006-2012 FST and turbo sled. This flash is the best ever made by Precision Sports over the last 4 years and has been extensively tested during the 2011 season.

The 2012 reflash will replace older stage 2 and stage 3 flashes that have been on the market since 2008. In fact, the 2012 reflash version is so good it will be the only one offered by Precision Sports going forward. Older stage 2 and stage 3 flashes have already been discontinued.

The main benefit of the 2012 reflash version is the fact engines operate much like when methanol injection is installed, meaning there is barely any power derating at high boost in normal operating conditions. This has been made possible by further refining ignition and fuel maps.

The 2012 flash version offers slightly more boost than the older stage 3 flash and features the same reliability as the widely used stage 2 flash version. It requires the use of premium pump gas at all times for best performance and incorporates all security and safety features originally programmed by Polaris.

A special upgrade program for people already using stage 2 and stage 3 flashes will be introduced and presented on the website of Precision Sports by August 10th 2012. For all customers not running an older stage 2 or stage 3 flash, this 2012 flash will be the only one offered by Precision Sports going forward. I am very pleased with the performance of this 2012 flash and feel it's simply the best in terms of reliability, stability and power output without methanol injection.

Do not hesitate to e-mail Precision Sports if you have questions or if you require more information about the new 2012 reflash program.

Contact us


I'm going to ask for the benefit of all of us who have to live with oxygenated fuels and the occasional tank of 89 octane: I realize that with lower quality fuel, derating is probably going to happen at some point and I can accept that. Am I understanding correctly that this new flash will be less likely to derate than previous flashes, even on fuel with lower octane? I ask because I opted for Stage 2 over Stage 3 due to fuel quality concerns. Next, will the new flash perform better when the sled is exposed to longer runs at low boost levels? Example: During extended periods of running at 50mph or so (which is a pretty easy pace on some trails) I found that my otherwise good performance was often "missing" when trying to accelerate beyond the steady-state cruising speed (boost levels were "normal"). This was the case even on cold days, so it's not a "warm weather" thing. That situation is probably my biggest "gripe" with the sled and if the new flash will help the situation, I'm very interested as well. Last, does this new flash "require" adding an aftermarket silencer or would that just offer further improvement? Thanks!

This post has been edited by orville-x: Aug 6 2012, 09:29 PM


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Snobeeler
post Aug 7 2012, 07:26 AM
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QUOTE(yayou @ Aug 6 2012, 11:25 PM) *
That's a tough one. I have seen highly optomistic dyno figures in the past and I have also seen conservative dyno figures. Sometimes the same flash will show 190hp+ on a particular dyno (which I don't believe to be accurate at all) and 155hp on an other dyno (which I don't believe to be accurate either). It all depends on who is operating the dyno and how the sled is setup on the dyno.

That being said, I have flashed hundreds of ECU's for customers all over North America and Europe and many of them had the opportunity to run their engines on dyno's. The overall consensus has always been that the stage 3 reflash was generating around 175hp and the stage 2 around 165hp..... give or take. So.... I am sorry if I do not quote huge numbers, but that is what I believe to be right after 5 years into this and certainly over 600 ECU's flashed during that time.

What is really important is how much of a power increase is achieved over stock. Comparing stock and modified on any Dyno should all return close to the same results.

This post has been edited by Snobeeler: Aug 7 2012, 07:27 AM


--------------------
06 FST Classic............. 8,700 miles, All Updates and Team Tips Completed, Yayou's 2012 ECU Upgrade, Reinforced Boost Box, PS Advanced Rider Adjustable Boost Pressure Controller, Innovative Motorsports Data Logger, Stewert Warner Boost Gauge, 08 Spindles, SLP slt Ski's with Dual Runners, Revalved M-10 shocks, Reinforced Front A-Arm, Rebalanced Drive Clutch, SLP Heat Vents, Gearcase Alignment Done, Violet Wire Fix, Rerouted Cyclone Seperator Vent to Muffler, Jackshaft Notch, 12 Volt D-C Outlet, Gas Tank Float Level Modification, RC7PYCBX Spark Plugs.

2014 800 Switchback Pro R Adventure..........1650 Miles, Rerouted VES Solenoid Outlet (sound familiar), StudBoy Duece Runners, Heavy Rear Track Spring.
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post Aug 8 2012, 11:15 PM
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QUOTE(orville-x @ Aug 6 2012, 09:28 PM) *
I'm going to ask for the benefit of all of us who have to live with oxygenated fuels and the occasional tank of 89 octane: I realize that with lower quality fuel, derating is probably going to happen at some point and I can accept that. Am I understanding correctly that this new flash will be less likely to derate than previous flashes, even on fuel with lower octane? I ask because I opted for Stage 2 over Stage 3 due to fuel quality concerns. Next, will the new flash perform better when the sled is exposed to longer runs at low boost levels? Example: During extended periods of running at 50mph or so (which is a pretty easy pace on some trails) I found that my otherwise good performance was often "missing" when trying to accelerate beyond the steady-state cruising speed (boost levels were "normal"). This was the case even on cold days, so it's not a "warm weather" thing. That situation is probably my biggest "gripe" with the sled and if the new flash will help the situation, I'm very interested as well. Last, does this new flash "require" adding an aftermarket silencer or would that just offer further improvement? Thanks!


I'd kinda like to know the answer to that as well and live the same extended mid-speed causes derate issue.. I also have stock intercooler and went with stage 2 because of rural town gas which is usually lower octane. I was thinking of Meth this year to combat the lower octane fuel....

The recommendation is higher octane on this new flash, but how does it perform on 87/89?


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SOLD MY07 FST IQLX, 128" M10. SLP Vent Kit front/back both sides. Notched Jackshaft cover. Boost Gauge. NGK Iridium BKR7EIX Spark Plugs. Rerouted Cyclone Hose to Exhaust. Oil Pressure Sensor Mod. 6" Bergstrom Triple Points and spacers. 128" AC Quiet Track. Snobeeler shock specs. Precision Sports stage II, 24/44 gearing and clutching recommendations (7043063/7042083 springs) . BREZ's Ukranian Torque Arm. RZIMMER alternator pulley kit. Racecraft (ZORNIGVW) boost box. 2" risers, handguards, Garmin Montana 600 gps.
All wires tucked, wrapped and strapped. Boost Ref Hose replaced and ran through wire loom wrapped with heat tape. 5800 miles and climbing. Top speed - 108 on recall (maybe more this year?), that's F_ST enough for this old guy.

Darkside - Doo 1200 GSX LE - 120" Track, Garmin 600 Montana GPS, Bergstrom triple point skegs. Still stock. Please don't hold it against me :)
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Fst-switchback
post Aug 9 2012, 07:26 PM
Post #19


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2007 FST Switchback
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Well in a nut shell any stock machine could be tested on any dyno
Lets just say the stock one read 150 horse on the dyno
On the same dyno what would be the net increase if you just changed the flash to the new one?
A general idea is close enough
Dont expect you addvertise big claims like the2 stroke pipe guys used to do
Thanks
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dirtiedeeds
post Aug 9 2012, 08:16 PM
Post #20


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How about ethanol blended fuels? I realize that at most fuel stations, at least here in the U.S. where I tend to ride, do not blend ethanol with their higher octane fuels. Sometimes you will run into a fill station that does blend ethanol with all of there grades and depending on the situation may be the only option. Will this reflash play well with ethanol blended fuels?


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MY14 Switchback 800 Pro-R


MY06 Sportsman 500 H.O.
Dynojet jet kit install, K&N intake air filter and pre charger, Glacier plow system.
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